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MadHatter
5th April 2017, 02:20 AM
Me and Josh have been discussing Secret Room from the feedback we have recieved from various people.

There are 3 options we have which we would like your feedback one.

Option 1- SR stays 1 per day, but times are altered.
Option 2- SR gets changed to 3 days a week (Sat, Tue, Thurs)
Option 3- SR gets a total overhaul from eflyff's. The Concept is simple. Secret Room is open all the time 24/7(except "blah" time after a new guild occupies it). When a guild conquers the Secret Room they will control the Secret Room and its rewards until anouther guild compleates the room, at which point that new Guild becomes the Occupying Guild.


Example- Guild A compleates Secret Room on Monday. Guild B tried to compleate Secret Room on Tuesday but failed. Guild A continues to hold Secret Room till Friday when Guild C manages to compleate it. Guild A must then capture Secret Room Back.

There would have to be certain restrictions("Cooldowns") on how often a guild can try to capture Secret Room. (like once per 24 hours) or simular. And Maybe a "holding time" where once you capture Secret Room its yours for "blah" amount of time minimum b4 anouther guild can capture it off you.

Time to vote!

If you select option 1 or 2 or even 3 but want to suggest time if 1/2 is selected please post your suggested times here! that way what ever option gets selected we are covered.

And leave feedback :)

Optics
5th April 2017, 02:29 AM
Personally, I think 3 times a week is fine. It gives people a chance to conqueror the Secret Room. Not only that, but it gives people the chance to revise their tactics for a couple days and then jump in with a fresh start...

Secret Room being once a day is not a problem at ALL. However, seeing as people have important stuff going on in their lives; and can't make it to every Secret Room, it seems more reasonable to have three days where they can decide which day is better for them. There's also one major concept that I think is reasonable for guilds. They beat the Secret Room and they deserve to rule over it for a little while. Since Secret Room happens once a day, it's always going to be 50/50 which guild wins Secret Room (Royale, iCe, Triforce and etc.). In other words it's a bet. However I think having it three days a week gives people the chance to enjoy the victory afterwards.

Let me know what you think :x, maybe I'm thinking way off...
________________________________

I like the third option but 3 points
1- wait time for trying should be 48-72 hours so it's technically 3 times a week too
2- if guild A captures the room in 20 minutes, then loses it to guild B who took 90 minutes, it's not really fair. maybe scale up rewards by how it is captured? (for ex. rarity scroll price is 4500bc if SR is done in under 30 mins and up to 6000 if longer than 90mins)
3- it is sooo much harder to organize a line up when there is no set time so participation will stay low. i'm sure a lot will choose option 3 but will ignore this aspect.

^ This is important as well. I agree with the first point being there should be some sort of cool down. Just like most, if not every one, of the dungeons in game, this should be maintained with a cool down.

Azuline
5th April 2017, 02:30 AM
I like the third option but 3 points
1- wait time for trying should be 48-72 hours so it's technically 3 times a week too
2- if guild A captures the room in 20 minutes, then loses it to guild B who took 90 minutes, it's not really fair. maybe scale up rewards by how it is captured? (for ex. rarity scroll price is 4500bc if SR is done in under 30 mins and up to 6000 if longer than 90mins)
3- it is sooo much harder to organize a line up when there is no set time so participation will stay low. i'm sure a lot will choose option 3 but will ignore this aspect.

edit: also what's stopping a guild from making a a few other guilds to migrate to if they fail or lose SR to another guild before they can try again?

and I think it should go back to only 2 days a week, times altered (after regular siege both days)

Murk
5th April 2017, 02:36 AM
It's hard to vote when you don't know when any of the times are... i.e, if the three times for option 2 are times I won't ever make, option 3 would be the choice so I could even have a chance at participating. If you could gather more detailed information such as this it could help...

MadHatter
5th April 2017, 02:42 AM
It's hard to vote when you don't know when any of the times are... i.e, if the three times for option 2 are times I won't ever make, option 3 would be the choice so I could even have a chance at participating. If you could gather more detailed information such as this it could help...

this is what option 2 could look like:-

http://image.prntscr.com/image/0cc79b0675c44f998fe34c549c0ec923.png

however if you select option 1 or 2 your more then welcome to post the times you want to suggest along with yoru vote!

Racc
5th April 2017, 09:36 AM
I don't think any of the given options is good way to make Secret Room more attractive. Let's think about what Secret Room is like right now. Its mobs are strong and it takes a while to finish it. However, you have a lot of time to finish it when there's only one guild. The real competition of SR is to finish it faster than the other guild. This is what Secret Room is about: Be faster than the other guild and then you win it, but right now we face the problem that only one guild actually does SR everyday. So we have to think of ways to make more guilds go SR everyday. It really doesn't matter if it's only two times or three times per week at different times. SR is a great content update. Why would i want that to be 1 time per week (given that the times are gonna be setup for players of different time zones)? That's totally the wrong way in my opinion. We waste good content if we make it take place only 2-3 times per week only.

So how can we make SR more attractive? Rewards! The problem of the current reward system is that you could basically buy or farm RedChips and BlueChips for weeks and just wait until your guild wins SR once because the other guilds don't participate. Then you can exchange all of your Chips at once and you don't have to worry about going SR for a while. This system isn't going to make players try to win SR once per day. It does the opposite instead. It encourages guilds to wait until no other guild participates. We need rewards which every guild wants to benefit from everyday. That means the rewards need to work in a way that you can't just benefit from it once, but permanently / continuously. Example:

1. Tax system:

Gives a % of all items sold or bought to NPCs to the winning guild of Secret Room. It's a steady, but probably not overpowered income for the guild who won SR. Tax power expires after 1 day unless the guild wins SR again.

2. Lower dungeon cooldown times:

The SR reward shop offers items for BC / RC / MHT. It's already effective to farm BC and use them to purchase cheaper Ultimate Rarity Scrolls. We increase the effectiveness of connecting Blue Chip farming in dungeons with winning SR if winning SR makes farming BC more profitable.

3. Guild based droprate buff:

If your guild wins Secret Room, then this could give your guild a 24 hour droprate buff or some other kind of a boost in order to make farming BC / RC / MHT more effective.


These are just vague ideas. I think that farming should be a lot more connected with winning Secret Rooms and we really need rewards which every guilds wants to have everyday. There are endless possibilities and i am of the opinion this is the better way. We all starved for new content for so long. If SR takes place only 2 or 3 times per week, the chances are high that the majority of the players can only participate in maybe 1 SR. 1 SR each week would not make me build PvE gears to be honest. SR would be just another drop of water on a hot stone and the PvE content of Insanity would remain as stale and boring as it was for the majority of the players. It needs to take place once per day, given that the reward system is changed into a system which makes guilds go to SR every day.

Czaru
5th April 2017, 10:14 AM
Can we have Option 4: 2 times a week? Idk about the others, but i think SR should be held once or max twice a week. Also my gf had a good idea regarding the rewards. How about rewarding the winners with tokens they can swap for "rare" rewards at the SR NPC. That way the rewards become more attractive and it puts a good swing to the market. There are a lot of ideas what to put in as the rewards.

Racc
5th April 2017, 10:56 AM
That we reward a guild with rewards isn't a new idea. The problem is: What rewards? Nobody is really going to do SR for months just because you can buy exclusive fashion from it.

Czaru
5th April 2017, 01:05 PM
If you would read my statement you may have noticed that i made a suggestion on how to swap the current rewards with a new system. /fine

Gabsie
5th April 2017, 01:29 PM
i like option 3 for the following reasons:
1.) its daily so no camping guild's for more than 2-3 days.
2.) its available for everyone everyday so when a person of a guild planned lineup doesnt showup because he/she had something important to take care of in that day , helps alot on guilds that dont have much people lined up and can barely register 6-7people.
3.) having to plan all week and just lose via. GL disconnection or the GL accidentally died is just a huge pitty specially if you planned all week and just lose in an instant.

also now that Racc had brought it up

more rewards would make it more interesting specially the 3rd one


3. Guild based droprate buff:

If your guild wins Secret Room, then this could give your guild a 24 hour droprate buff or some other kind of a boost in order to make farming BC / RC / MHT more effective.


having a guild based droprate buff is good to the guildmembers and also the market because of 2 reasons:
1.) last time i checked the market had alot of BC/MHT/RC before the SR release , but after SR had released the winning guilds had almost ransacked the BC/MHT/RC stocks in market and these are because of the players wanting the SR rewards and almost all of the time they cant find them and might even may more or twice the intended price range.
2.) increase of guild droprate reward buff is good for the winning guild because they wont have to wait to buy BC/MHT/RC from players anymore and could just farm for them selves.

.....

also this had just poped up from my mind um , arent we setting the bar for SR too high? i mean its good and all having new content in the game and but.

the general population of the game was really excited for the release of the SR i know i was also really pumped up for the release! just because of the Weapon/Shield leveling rooms ofcourse , but just after a week it was released the guild registration of guilds going to SR had been 7+ guilds but now is like only 3-4 guilds , making 2 guilds can only get the room for themselves , and now after the update of the SR from 100points to 200points its really hard now even for the guilds to complete them and now that its being more hard than ever i dont really think that most guilds that were having a hard time in the first place can and actually join it anymore but just jump to a bandwagon guild win bc of the winning perks.

Slurpee
5th April 2017, 02:44 PM
Can we have Option 4: 2 times a week? Idk about the others, but i think SR should be held once or max twice a week. Also my gf had a good idea regarding the rewards. How about rewarding the winners with tokens they can swap for "rare" rewards at the SR NPC. That way the rewards become more attractive and it puts a good swing to the market. There are a lot of ideas what to put in as the rewards.

what could those "rare" rewards be?

Racc
5th April 2017, 02:47 PM
SecretRoom would be more active as soon as we add rewards which aren't used up after winning it once. That's what happens with BCs at the moment. Buy them or farm them for weeks and just wait until your guild wins it once. We need daily rewards, such as the ones Gab and i mentioned. It could be lower dungeon cooldowns, a slight droprate buff, kind of a crown next to the guild logo (like the crown for siege), access to a better penya farming area. Furthermore SR itself needs to offer more. I got roughly 3.5k Blue chips last time when we won it. That's because you can't always be next to each other. Sometimes the team is far far away from each other killing different kind groups of mobs. Then you won't get the BCs from the other mobs which are killed somewhere else. 3.5k Blue Chips isn't even one ulti rarity scroll. Nobody is really going to spend more than hour for that. Thus i say the middle boss or the endgame boss mob but also the normal mobs need to drop a much bigger ammount of BC. It really doesn't hurt if you can get around 10k from one full SR run. That'd be a proper reward and already a slight motivation for a lot of people to take part in SR. Combine it with your regular farming and you can actually make a living from that finally. Combine it with access to a propper penya or RC farming area and i guarantee you that guilds will definitly fight over SR finally.

vivi
5th April 2017, 03:01 PM
My idea behind the new siege rewards was the following:

The participants of the winning guild shall all receive one Secret-Room-Token (Not tradable).
Therefore there should be a new npc (or swap the current npc or w/e) where you can trade your SR-tokens.
F.e. (Please note that, this is only an example, no flamerino or discussion please. The mainidea is the tokenreward)
1 Token can be traded for (rather weak) powerups (str/sta/dex/int dct etc.)
5 Tokens can be traded for a new lord buff?: Drop Rate +10% f.e.
10 Tokens can be traded for fashion sets/transmute stuff etc.
100 Tokens (This may never happen, but I mean you need 100 tokens) can be traded to something super special like a awake transfer scroll. This special reward should NOT be taken into the item mall.

Also the SR should be held 1 or 2 every week, so the guilds can coordinate themselves with the best Lus and actually have time to get their rewards.

Slurpee
5th April 2017, 03:13 PM
My idea behind the new siege rewards was the following:

The participants of the winning guild shall all receive one Secret-Room-Token (Not tradable).
Therefore there should be a new npc (or swap the current npc or w/e) where you can trade your SR-tokens.
F.e. (Please note that, this is only an example, no flamerino or discussion please. The mainidea is the tokenreward)
1 Token can be traded for (rather weak) powerups (str/sta/dex/int dct etc.)
5 Tokens can be traded for a new lord buff?: Drop Rate +10% f.e.
10 Tokens can be traded for fashion sets/transmute stuff etc.
100 Tokens (This may never happen, but I mean you need 100 tokens) can be traded to something super special like a awake transfer scroll. This special reward should NOT be taken into the item mall.

Also the SR should be held 1 or 2 every week, so the guilds can coordinate themselves with the best Lus and actually have time to get their rewards.


i think the awake transfer scroll would destroy the market, imo.
and lets just quit giving transmutes as a reward. lets think of something more useful for the newbies, to inspire them to be strong and do SR daily. remember not all people are end geared and has decent gears :p


SecretRoom would be more active as soon as we add rewards which aren't used up after winning it once. That's what happens with BCs at the moment. Buy them or farm them for weeks and just wait until your guild wins it once. We need daily rewards, such as the ones Gab and i mentioned. It could be lower dungeon cooldowns, a slight droprate buff, kind of a crown next to the guild logo (like the crown for siege), access to a better penya farming area. Furthermore SR itself needs to offer more. I got roughly 3.5k Blue chips last time when we won it. That's because you can't always be next to each other. Sometimes the team is far far away from each other killing different kind groups of mobs. Then you won't get the BCs from the other mobs which are killed somewhere else. 3.5k Blue Chips isn't even one ulti rarity scroll. Nobody is really going to spend more than hour for that. Thus i say the middle boss or the endgame boss mob but also the normal mobs need to drop a much bigger ammount of BC. It really doesn't hurt if you can get around 10k from one full SR run. That'd be a proper reward and already a slight motivation for a lot of people to take part in SR. Combine it with your regular farming and you can actually make a living from that finally. Combine it with access to a propper penya or RC farming area and i guarantee you that guilds will definitly fight over SR finally.

+1 to this though. this is something that can inspire all the guilds to compete in SR.

Czaru
5th April 2017, 03:16 PM
It wouldnt destroy anything if there would be 3 scrolls each year on the market.

Edit: It was an example as well, there are many ways to create "rare" rewards. Also the drop skill i mentioned (Racc mentioned as well? idk) is useless atm imo, since there is one dungeon you can farm, which doesnt even really reward you to farm it.

Racc
5th April 2017, 03:18 PM
My idea behind the new siege rewards was the following:

The participants of the winning guild shall all receive one Secret-Room-Token (Not tradable).
Therefore there should be a new npc (or swap the current npc or w/e) where you can trade your SR-tokens.
F.e. (Please note that, this is only an example, no flamerino or discussion please. The mainidea is the tokenreward)
1 Token can be traded for (rather weak) powerups (str/sta/dex/int dct etc.)
5 Tokens can be traded for a new lord buff?: Drop Rate +10% f.e.
10 Tokens can be traded for fashion sets/transmute stuff etc.
100 Tokens (This may never happen, but I mean you need 100 tokens) can be traded to something super special like a awake transfer scroll. This special reward should NOT be taken into the item mall.

Also the SR should be held 1 or 2 every week, so the guilds can coordinate themselves with the best Lus and actually have time to get their rewards.

We already struggle with our inventory space. More power ups would just make this problem worse. Transmutes - we have dozens of transmutes. Really, they don't make anyone do SR at all. The awake transfer scroll would probably break the system. I rather don't want to see that happen on Insanity.

I like where you are comming from though, as you seem to think the same regarding the need to add better reward instead of playing around with the times of SR.

Czaru
5th April 2017, 03:20 PM
Im pretty sure it wouldnt break anything if you would implement it in the right way. (hard) Btw. the fashion transy scroll has done a lot already. :O)

Slurpee
5th April 2017, 03:24 PM
It wouldnt destroy anything if there would be 3 scrolls each year on the market.

Edit: It was an example as well, there are many ways to create "rare" rewards. Also the drop skill i mentioned (Racc mentioned as well? idk) is useless atm imo, since there is one dungeon you can farm, which doesnt even really reward you to farm it.

by dungeon do you mean the Cove? it does actually reward you something nice if youre a daily farmer and if you have luck :p
Czaru it has and we don't want another thing to give players the chances to break the system right? 1 is enough. no need to add it. and i think that suggestion has been suggested lotta times and has been denied many times too. awakes should and always stay with the players luck.

for me, adding fashion transy scroll in the system is enough lol

Gabsie
5th April 2017, 03:27 PM
Im pretty sure it wouldnt break anything if you would implement it in the right way. (hard) Btw. the fashion transy scroll has done a lot already. :O)

well , before fashion transy ex. a trin mask M ia25+ = 3-4k+ and a trin mask F ia25+ = 2-3k+
clearly a reasonable increase/decrease boundary that had been eliminated from prices

well to think of it an awake transfer might not really be a bad idea aslong as its only obtainable through SR and is reasonably hard to get , so it would take about 1 month to grind of off

Czaru
5th April 2017, 03:29 PM
Guys for the fourth time. It was an idea. I even mentioned that the scroll will probably not be added. It was a filler for a "rare" reward, so please just let it go.

Racc
5th April 2017, 03:30 PM
It wouldnt destroy anything if there would be 3 scrolls each year on the market.

Edit: It was an example as well, there are many ways to create "rare" rewards. Also the drop skill i mentioned (Racc mentioned as well? idk) is useless atm imo, since there is one dungeon you can farm, which doesnt even really reward you to farm it.

If there are just 3 scrolls on the market per year then, then how would this make anyone actually go SR? xD It's either a useless reward or way too overpowered. That's my final answer on this idea though. This is not what this topic is about. I agree that there are many possibilities to add rewards though.

Czaru
5th April 2017, 03:32 PM
Guys for the fourth time. It was an idea. I even mentioned that the scroll will probably not be added. It was a filler for a "rare" reward, so please just let it go.

Kappa.

Slurpee
5th April 2017, 03:47 PM
but if we dont oppose, it might get added :p we're just giving thoughts to the developers on why, they shouldn't add it. :)

SharkanFR
5th April 2017, 03:48 PM
I vote 3 and for time 1 that's cool every day!

MadHatter
5th April 2017, 03:51 PM
this topic is not about rewards we are already working on some more before we made this post. please keep this topic to times/options thx :) we will accept reward suggestions after our updated reward is added :)

Murk
5th April 2017, 06:12 PM
The rewards aren't that bad, should I even bring up the 300 RC you get from guild siege?

Simen
5th April 2017, 06:46 PM
Personally hate the idea/plan to make the time secret room is held jump all over the clock for each of the days its held, instead of having it on the same time of day when its held, like siege.

Azuline
6th April 2017, 12:23 AM
Again, we already know that normal siege (the original one) time suits everyone the most. Yes some wont be able to, but overall it's the best choice.

Make it twice a week again so it's actually worth doing as well.

One hour after regular siege on Wednesdays and Sundays is my suggestion.

Hyper
6th April 2017, 04:43 AM
So right now, all we have to go on for times is: "Around siege times". We have a few that are around them, yet players don't bother with them, excluding Triforce.

Azuline
6th April 2017, 04:44 AM
So right now, all we have to go on for times is: "Around siege times". We have a few that are around them, yet players don't bother with them, excluding Triforce.

That's because it's not worth organizing 10 people for mediocre rewards for less than a day...

Slurpee
6th April 2017, 05:42 AM
so then maybe we gotta start discussing the rewards too :3

Hyper
6th April 2017, 05:58 AM
No, MadHatter just said stick to times and the feed back on the 3 Options. Rewards will not be discussed until a later date.

donnameow
6th April 2017, 06:12 AM
Secret room is fine as it is now just like your everyday siege. We should stop limiting an access to this content for everyone just because some of you guys cant make it. Most guilds can make time for siege which is everyday and twice a day so in my opinion, if you really want to participate with secret room then you can make a time for it too.

Exiliah
6th April 2017, 07:06 AM
Secret room is fine as it is now just like your everyday siege. We should stop limiting an access to this content for everyone just because some of you guys cant make it. Most guilds can make time for siege which is everyday and twice a day so in my opinion, if you really want to participate with secret room then you can make a time for it too.

If what you said was true, you would see more than one guild apply and it being run 7 times a week, sadly neither of those happen. 'Some of you guys' is also not the right way to put it as iCe, Banana, Cake and Royale all do not run it due to timezones (and other things). That makes it a majority, just sayin'

Racc
6th April 2017, 09:25 AM
It seems like we all have different opinions about how often SR should take place, but the main reason for this is that we base our opinions either on the current reward system (which indeed isn't suited for 7x SR per week) or on an imagination on an improved reward system in the future. /sigh

Slurpee
6th April 2017, 01:47 PM
If what you said was true, you would see more than one guild apply and it being run 7 times a week, sadly neither of those happen. 'Some of you guys' is also not the right way to put it as iCe, Banana, Cake and Royale all do not run it due to timezones (and other things). That makes it a majority, just sayin'

then if that's the case. make sr daily and make it an hour after siege or 2 hrs and 30 mins before siege :p

BreadLord
6th April 2017, 03:45 PM
then if that's the case. make sr daily and make it an hour after siege or 2 hrs and 30 mins before siege :p

+1. problem became easier and simplier because this grill is not biased

Azuline
6th April 2017, 06:13 PM
+1. problem became easier and simplier because this grill is not biased

Everyone who provides reasoning is biased and those who throw unbacked suggestions are not biased?

I suggest 2 days a week 1 hour after siege even tho that is not suited for my guild as NA people would be at work/ school.
Look, daily SR IS NOT SUSTAINABLE. You say youll do it daily... but really in 2 weeks you will only be doing it once a week because people lose interest. You give it better rewards and you might make people do it for a month instead of 2 weeks, so dont say "but its the rewards".

If you suggest something PLEASE give reasoning as to why you think this is a good idea.

Slurpee
6th April 2017, 06:18 PM
Everyone who provides reasoning is biased and those who throw unbacked suggestions are not biased?

I suggest 2 days a week 1 hour after siege even tho that is not suited for my guild as NA people would be at work/ school.
Look, daily SR IS NOT SUSTAINABLE. You say youll do it daily... but really in 2 weeks you will only be doing it once a week because people lose interest. You give it better rewards and you might make people do it for a month instead of 2 weeks, so dont say "but its the rewards".

If you suggest something PLEASE give reasoning as to why you think this is a good idea.

idk if this is enough reasoning but tbh doing sr is the only fun thing to do now. =)

Exiliah
6th April 2017, 06:34 PM
To all of you who are saying that SR is the only fun thing to do etc, that's cool and all but you have to understand that the system we have in place is only fun for a very small group of people right now. Yes, you can say 'why don't you run SR' or 'If you are dedicated enough to siege you can go to SR too', but despite saying these, the results we see ingame are clearly different.

For the past week we have boasted one guild SR runs (with several days having no entries). Yes we can argue that a major factor to this is that the rewards are not really worth it after you win once or twice, but a large factor to this is that you need a stacked lineup to even attempt it, and having it every day at different times makes it incredibly difficult to rally people together (some of us have work and school mind you).

It is simply illogical to run an event that takes anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours (depending on how good your guild is) which requires multiple people to be competitive, and then also requires them to all log on at the same time despite most guilds having players from all around the world. If we want to keep Secret Room competitive, it is better to have it twice or three times a week so guilds can actually get used to a time where multiple people show up.

The current situation has caused guilds to fuse and removed whatever competitive nature Secret Room had on release. If people seriously think that keeping it daily is good because it's 'fun' then we should look into alternatives such as a runnable dungeon with the SR mobs tuned down so anyone can approach it, however regarding the competitive aspect of it, it is far too often and far too unrewarding right now.

Hyper
6th April 2017, 06:59 PM
Kay, closing this, poll is closed. When I said keep it to the Options, and Times, I meant it. Sorry Kirk.